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RBT
VETERAN
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Tackling....//japan\....

on Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:41 am
First of all let me say if u give japan time then u will be at the loser end.....Lets see some points....
1. U cant raid this civi......
2.Eco boom with considerable army is possible with this.......as shrines gives this civi land dominance+ LOS+ production support.... affraid
3.Not to forget their foreign intervention....i.e. consulate....they get a bank...as well as from japan relation they can produce 10 units in a stretch......lol..... lol! lol! lol!
------------------------------------------------------------


But then again they r not unbeatable........The worst part of Japan is their cav is weaker than even cossack...............and they have no i mean no anti artillery.....[plzz leave the yabasume....they can be easily targeted by skirmishers as they have a very low hp].......leaving the consulate.....

This is why precisely if someone plans to exploit its weaknesses japan will be in trouble!!.....their army is highly susceptible to artillery king king ......rushing japan with app army.....is all wat is needed....Dnt engage them with lots of musk....U will loose certainly.....and dnt lose ur army mush....reconcile and shoot!!....keep them busy as u take a leap!!........ bounce bounce bounce
It works for me.....very well......

But then again.......Choose carefully....This game is all abt taking good decisions....!!.... :Idea: :Idea: :Idea:

Byee....
titans
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Re: Tackling....//japan\\....

on Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:14 pm
you right but all about players good player win aginst any civv, only good thinking ans good skill needed
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RBT
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Re: Tackling....//japan\\....

on Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:13 pm
absolutely correct bhavin..... pirat
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JUGGERNAUT
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Re: Tackling....//japan\\....

on Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:46 pm
truly said dev most important thing in Japanese civilization is that their boom is like a turtle slow. therefore the only possible thing that a Japanese can do is wait wait and wait for his chance till end. on a total a defensive civ to play with.. and that's y i hate this civ..! ;D some of the disadvantages of Japanese as follows:

# Slow start, slow eco boom and slow unit production; (i hate the word slow)
# No real artilery counter besides yusambes too costly as dev said above;
# Completely based on how far you can defend and attack on right time. (i hate test matches) ;D ;D ;D hehe
_Ares_War_CharioT_
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Re: Tackling....//japan\\....

on Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:57 am
Hey so..I was just browsing your forums ..I think you guys are kind of wrong about japs..

They have a very good start, very fast boom, and their unit production is fast.

Along with fastest musks in game, they can hit and run perfectly. Yumis with Daimyo make short work of even imperial skirs.

Flaming arrows can counter arty to some extent. But japs can finish game around 10-12mins easily. Thats generally before someone gets artilerry.

Japs is very powerful in 1.03. And one of the hardest civs to beat in 1v1 or 2v2. They are weak to artillery, yes..but they dont totall crumble vs it.

On a normal land map, Japs just needs 6:15 to complete his shrine boom, after which he can pump away.
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JUGGERNAUT
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Re: Tackling....//japan\\....

on Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:12 am
Hmm yes Ares_war you right about fast musket without the card and its ok for the total rush games which ends up b/w 10-20 min.

well yes they have fast booming as they can't be raided well coz of buildings and orchards but you do have to make the combo army (ashigaru + nigariders)

Their only hope is the Hero which provides fast infantry in large variety plus increased attack.

Their Flaming arrows are not that effective at all they can be down anytime with the perfect combo on the opponents side.

But honestly if i say i have defeated japs manier times by my deadliest Indian rushes plus boom tactic here in Gr and in Eso too.
_Ares_War_CharioT_
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Re: Tackling....//japan\\....

on Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:34 am
I dont mean to start an argument here! but still!!

By fastest musk I meant +.5 speed compared to others, which is a lot for hit and runs and advanced patrols.

Daimyo boosts their unit attack by damn lot. And if they put the wonder up, they get 33% boost from it as well.

Flaming arrows are bad yeah, but they can make short work of enemy falconets if there aren't many falcos.

Japs ashiguru can actually take on a mixed skir+musket army because of the 15% attack card along with presence of daimyo. Moreover, shinobi's from consulate provide awesome spies!

Japs are actually strong between 7-12mins, later they become a bit vulnerable to falconets. But 7-12mins they are very powerful. Like I said, 6:!5 is all they need to have completed shrine boom, after which they can pump army away! Smile
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JUGGERNAUT
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Re: Tackling....//japan\\....

on Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:51 pm
ye that's what i said lol hehe and dont worry about discusions is what clear our duobts..!
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RBT
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Re: Tackling....//japan\\....

on Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:26 am
no argument buddy...japs r much vulnerable to early rush.....and u may have ur opinion...but we have also been playing for a while.....and yea u r right they r fast in musk.....alongwith shrine boom...and yes they r tough to beat but i feel Chinese r tougher...[not impossible though]....


And buddy this is just a generic intro to see the weakness of jap...not any tactic though...
_Ares_War_CharioT_
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Re: Tackling....//japan\\....

on Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:32 pm
You obviously haven't played 1v1 vs good Japanese players =)

But then like you said "everyone has their own opinion"
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Re: Tackling....//japan\\....

on Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:40 pm
Japanese you see, can complete their boom in 6:20 on normal land map. Which means you have to hit them before that, around 5:00.

And since musks are weaker than jap musks, you have to go crossbow/pike.

Although many civs can do this, only French is capable of doing this properly because of their economy.

One might say that brits can also do this, however the thing is, if Jap sends CM card, the rusher has to retreat. In that case, the strength of French 3rd age allows them to age up and use their fortress burst. But British, on the other hand have a very weak 3rd age.

And even to crossbow/pike; the japs have the counter of dual yumi with the clubmen.

Japs and Sioux are two hardest civilisatoins to beat, Sioux because of their super counter units, and Japs because of "fastest musk, 4.5speed", powerful musk/yumi combi, as well as great eco. Apart from fact they can't be raided.

Other way to beat Japanese is FF with cannons, but that is way too risky because if jap gets the cannons down, its game over due to eco difference ^^

I've not seen any good jap player on GR, maybe thats why you feel that way.

China is way easier to beat than Jap, only way another civ can lose to china is going mass musketeers.
_Ares_War_CharioT_
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Re: Tackling....//japan\\....

on Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:20 pm
Also! note how in VVV's tournament, Japanese is banned from 2v2?? Smile

"Civilization: All TWC & TAD civilizations. Japan is
allowed in 1v1 but not in 2v2. You have to use at least 2 different
civilisations in every match."

Its because Japanese is still beatable in 1v1 due to hard and fast rush, or a very strong FF. But in 2v2 those two things are risky ^^.
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JUGGERNAUT
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Re: Tackling....//japan\\....

on Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:24 pm
idk about any specific tournament, but generally both japs, india is cosidered too op & therefore banned for the tourney or is allowed in 1.02 fan patch..!. And about the japs issue u r right that they r weak against ff or early rushes. But u cant play with them in late colonial u have to age up for falcons.
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JUGGERNAUT
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Re: Tackling....//japan\\....

on Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:31 pm
about Chinese u r wrong, they r not that easy as butter they have good counter army and in variety too..!
_Ares_War_CharioT_
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Re: Tackling....//japan\\....

on Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:58 pm
china is a good civ, but they struggle vs someone going lot of light infantry with some hand cavalary.

They're definitely not as easy as butter, they're a tough civ, but no where near Japanese OP'd ness Smile

As far as VVV tournament goes, only Japanese is banned actually. Rest all are allowed, and Japanese is allowed in 1v1 form.

My point here was just that Japanese is a top civ, and not one with weak eco/army/whatever. Flaming arrows do make a short work of artillery btw Smile
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RBT
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Re: Tackling....//japan\\....

on Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:35 pm
..yupp..agreed..but against Dutch nd russians they really do suffer..!!....
nd regarding WW tournament...no Idea buddy...
.......dnt care...nyway.....Very Happy..
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chiragmech31
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Re: Tackling....//japan\\....

on Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:02 pm
i agreed
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